The Detroit Pistons made the trade of the year so far on Tuesday when they acquired Tobias Harris, and we here at Piston Powered discussed it with our friends at Orlando Magic Daily.
The Detroit Pistons were expected to have a quiet trade deadline period this season after creating shock waves a year ago when they acquired point guard Reggie Jackson late on deadline day, but they turned that idea on its head quickly thanks to a major trade with the Orlando Magic on Tuesday.
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Apparently, the Pistons’ head coach and President of Basketball Operations Stan Van Gundy simply doesn’t do “quiet” around the NBA trade deadline.
As you’re sure to know by now, the Pistons swapped point guard Brandon Jennings and power forward Ersan Ilyasova for forward Tobias Harris, and opinions around the NBA have been heavily in favor of the Pistons’ move, and favorable if perhaps guardedly so towards the Magic’s involvement in the deal as well.
While Piston fans are fairly united in their views on the trade for the 23-year old Harris, we decided to go outside our own ranks to discuss the deal. In that effort to get a more rounded view on the transaction, we here at Piston Powered joined forces with our friend Philip Rossman-Reich, editor of Orlando Magic Daily and Hardwood Paroxysm contributor, to learn just what Magic fans and analysts think of the deal.
Philip joined myself, Braden Shackelford and Tim Thielke to examine the acquisition of Tobias Harris, and how it will affect both the Pistons and the Magic.
Next: First reaction
1. Well, that escalated quickly, didn’t it? What was your initial reaction to the Pistons trade of Brandon Jennings and Ersan Ilyasova to the Magic for Tobias Harris?
Braden Shackelford, PistonPowered: My initial reaction was excitement. Every hypothetical trade I could come up with for an upgrade at power forward involved Jennings and Ilyasova–because I thought those were the most expendable pieces that could draw an upgrade. When that turned out to be the trade pieces for Tobias Harris–a player I really wanted to be a Piston last offseason–I was thrilled.
Tim Thielke, PistonPowered: This is awesome! I wanted Harris in free agency. He seemed like the player with the most upside who the Pistons had any sort of shot at. They couldn’t land him then. But they have now.
Duncan Smith, Piston Powered: My initial reaction was that it was a blockbuster win for the Pistons. Brandon Jennings is still shaky as he is coming back from his ruptured Achilles from a year ago and Ersan Ilyasova is basically a one-trick pony. Tobias Harris, on the other hand, is under contract for years on a fairly team-friendly deal, is young, and can fill multiple roles in a league where the more versatile you can be, the better. To top it off, I had hoped the Pistons would get him last offseason, so for the Pistons to get him in a more unorthodox fashion was a delight.
Philip Rossman-Reich, Orlando Magic Daily: I was really surprised by the deal. I anticipated the Magic would look to deal Harris a bit further down the road or in exchange for a star. So seeing the initial haul was a bit shocking. I thought Harris was having a good year outside of his scoring and was showing improvement. Was that worth $15 million a year (and increasing to $17 million next year)? Probably not. Still seeing a guy that was seen as a core guy traded away like this for two guys the Magic would likely bring off the bench and let walk in free agency was surprising and a bit frustrating considering the team considers itself in the playoff race. It just did not feel like a home run.
Next: How will Harris fit with Stan Van Gundy?
2. How do you see Harris fitting in with Stan Van Gundy and Detroit?
Shackelford: I see him fitting in very nicely. He’s a much better three-point shooter than what he’s shown this season. While he’s not Ilyasova from the outside, he’s much more of a scoring threat with his ability to take slower power forwards to the rim. He can also play small forward and bully smaller defenders there. I’m interested to see how he fits in defensively. The best scenario is that his presence allows the Pistons to become a better team defensively, because the Pistons will have more players who can switch on screens.
Thielke: I hope to see him replace Kentavious Caldwell-Pope as the primary starter to get a lot of burn with the second unit. His shooting should improve as there are more players in Detroit whose shots command some modicum of respect than there were in Orlando. But his ability to create scoring opportunities should be a huge boon whenever Reggie Jackson isn’t on the floor.
Smith: I expect he’s going to fit in pretty well. I expect him to start, but if he comes off the bench with Anthony Tolliver starting as he gets used to things in Detroit, that’s ok with me as well. I can only wish that Harris was shooting three-pointers like he was a year ago, but a change of scheme and scenery might do wonders.
Rossman-Reich: It is going to be an interesting fit. Stan Van Gundy really seems like he is trying to build a team very similar to the late-2000s Magic. That means lots of pick and rolls and lots of shooting. Tobias Harris does not have either. He is a capable scorer when you give him the ball, and he really improved as a slasher and scorer without the ball in that way. But he is limited a lot by what he cannot do behind the three-point line. I think Van Gundy will be able to use him defensively and hide some of his shortcomings, but it is an interesting fit. He has a lot of work to do to be a fit in the offense.
Next: Will Jennings and Ilyasova fit with Scott Skiles?
3. How do you see Jennings and Ilyasova fitting in with their former Milwaukee Bucks coach Scott Skiles in Orlando?
Shackelford: I think Skiles will probably use Jennings and Ilyasova in similar ways as Stan Van Gundy did–only Ilyasova won’t be starting for the Magic. It’s hard to see Jennings doing much more with the Magic, at least statistically, because Van Gundy’s system is so point guard-friendly, but you never know. Perhaps the more games Jennings plays in, the more he begins to look like his old self.
Thielke: Jennings will be the new backup point guard. And he will be much more suited to that role than Shabazz Napier or Victor Oladipo. Largely because he is a constant threat to pull up and shoot at any moment. He’s not really a better shooter than those guys. But he is more unpredictable. Ilyasova will probably just be a better version of Channing Frye–who I hear is probably moving to the Los Angeles Clippers. But I expect he gets a smaller role for the rest of the season.
Smith: Jennings and Ilyasova are both veterans, and Scott Skiles likes veterans, so I think they’ll be alright in Orlando. They have experience with Skiles from their time in Milwaukee, so they’ll surely know what to expect. Jennings will slide into the backup point guard spot for the rest of the year, and Ilyasova will probably come off the bench behind Aaron Gordon who has started the last 11 games for the Magic, but that could be up for debate.
Rossman-Reich: I am still trying to figure this out. Jennings and Ilyasova bring skills to the team that they were really lacking. Orlando desperately needed outside shooting, or at least the threat of it, to loosen up defenses. Jennings and Ilyasova in theory provide that, although both are not shooting great. Orlando will probably bring both off the bench so roles with the starting lineup are likely a little more defined now and that should help stabilize the team off the bench and in the rotation. If they can get the ball moving and accept their roles, it should give the team a bit of a boost. How much, I am a bit skeptical.
Next: Who won the trade?
4. It’s hard to say who “won” or “lost” a trade before any games are played, but is this a case of one team winning the deal or can it be the type of trade that ends up helping both sides?
Shackelford: The Pistons got the best player in the deal and the players they parted didn’t have a long-term place on the team. Therefore, the Pistons got the better deal. That said I’m not sure Orlando’s goal here was to get better. Orlando’s goal–I’m assuming–was to clear cap space, so if this move sets up another move for them in the future it will be worth it. This move also gives Orlando an opportunity to give extra minutes to Aaron Gordon and or Mario Hezonja. Giving minutes to young talented players when your team isn’t in position to compete is always the best way to go. For that matter, if Jennings can return to his pre-injury self, this trade looks even better for the Magic (assuming they try to retain him).
Thielke: There’s a little potential for both teams to win. It’s unlikely because the two teams aren’t that incredibly different. Both could certainly use more shooting, but really just need a serious talent upgrade. Both teams have playoff aspirations for this season, but no real shot at making any postseason noise. While just getting in would be nice, future years are more relevant. Both were in line to have significant cap space this coming summer but were long shots to be major players in free agency. All of that would point toward the idea of the trade being pretty close to zero-sum. But the Magic did have a glut of young forwards ready to take on more minutes, making Harris less valuable to them than to the Pistons. Also, they are significantly further out of the playoff race, making an incremental improvement for the rest of the season less valuable. And they have nicer climate, making cap space to work with in free agency a bit more valuable for the Magic. Those factors could theoretically push the trade into a win-win, but I think it’s a long shot.
Smith: I think if there could be only one winner, it would be the Pistons, but the Magic got value out of this as well. They trim $16 million off the books next year as Jennings’ $8 million expires and Ilyasova’s 2016-17 salary is only guaranteed for $400,000, meaning he can be let go at very little cost for the Magic after the season is over. The biggest difference between the winner and the loser in this deal is the fact that the Pistons didn’t have to include a draft pick in this deal. The margins would be closer if the Magic could have squeezed a pick out of the Pistons.
Rossman-Reich: It is really hard to tell. Looking at what the Magic are doing with this deal and the potential Channing Frye deal, it looks like the Magic are trying to clear cap room. So essentially the Magic traded Harris for the cap room to do . . . something. So what happens on the floor for the rest of the season feels only quasi-relevant. Yes, the Magic still want to win games and want to make the playoffs and catch the Pistons, but it also seems the team is looking to make a bigger splash in the summer. So the success or failure of this trade depends on where the Magic go from here in the offseason with the room they have created.
Next: The Pistons graded by Zach Lowe for Tobias Harris trade
Thanks again to Philip Rossman-Reich for his participation in our 4-on-4. Follow him on Twitter at @OMagicDaily and read his work at Orlando Magic Daily.